Exclusive: Frank Carter on Sex Pistols, Grime and his “unfinished business” with Gallows
In our exclusive interview, Frank Carter tells the story behind the rise and fall of Gallows, how he came to join the Sex Pistols, and why 15 years later, he still has unfinished business with Gallows...
Celebrating 50 Years of Punk
Hey! Ho! Let's Go! We’re marking 50 years of punk at Shortlist, bringing you insight into the rebellious sound that changed popular music for ever. Click here for the complete collection, or try these three-chord cuts:
- The 50 greatest punk albums, ever
- Punks pick the best ever punk songs
- Why the DIY ethos still matters five decades on (and why the punk spirit is needed now more than ever)
In Shortlist’s 50 years of punk series, we’ve celebrated the bands that started it all. Yet in the last two decades there’s been one frontman who’s been just as vital to UK punk as The Damned or The Buzzcocks of yesteryear — Frank Carter.
The former vocalist of Watford punk legends Gallows, leading man in rock n’roll upstarts Frank Carter and The Rattlesnakes and the current singer in the modern reincarnation of The Sex Pistols, few living musicians can boast the same punk pedigree.
To celebrate London punk still snarling 50 years later, we sat down with Carter to talk about his journey from destroying dive bars in Gallows to performing across the world with The Sex Pistols.
From punk upstart to frontman of the most famous punk band of all time, here's Carter's story — in his own words.
1984 - 2000: The local legends that inspired Frank to pick up a mic
I must have been 13 when I started wanting to play music. There was a punk band from Watford called Captain Everything, and bands like Fire Apple Red and My Dad Joe from the West Harts scene. They made more of a difference to me than the big bands, because there was punk rock in its purest form, directly in front of me, and I could touch it.
It wasn't in pages in magazines, it wasn't on MTV, I wasn't having to steal a CD from a record store, it was right there. I remember thinking, "Okay, this is what I want to be doing!"
2000 - 2004: From cover bands to a bold new sound
I was around 15 years old when I was really trying to pursue a band. I'd had a few bands where we’d have a few practices, play some covers, and then it always just fell apart before the first gig.
Gallows, L/R: Steph Carter, Stuart Gili-Ross, Frank Carter, Laurent Barnard, Lee Barratt
Gallows was the first one where we really toured. For Gallows, I got a call from Lags [founding guitarist] And he was like, "Look, I’ve seen you around and you play like me. I want to start a punk band that sounds different from anything else.” And that was exactly where I wanted to be.
At the time it was a lot of nu-metal bands, pop punk bands, and then really techie metal bands — that wasn't for me. I grew up listening to ‘70s, ‘80s, ‘90s pop music. So I think I brought a pop sensibility that most people would shy away from. I was trying to find the hook.
2006: ‘I remember the whole ceiling coming down’ — the sweaty seafront set that got Gallows noticed
We recorded the album and the record company sent us on this month-long tour of every fucking dive.
We played a show in Southend, right on the fucking seafront, and we just tore that fucking place apart. It was a function room at a pub, there was like six regulars just sitting there and then a bunch of gothy punk kids, and we all just fucking shredded the place.
I remember the whole ceiling coming down… The venue were just like, fuck the ceiling, this is the best thing we've had in here in ages!
From Nu-Metal support slots to Nu-opportunities
We opened up for Papa Roach and it was just a fucking disaster. Just Gallows, doing Gallows things, throwing equipment in the crowd, pure chaos. I actually love Papa Roach —I was at Papa Roach's first London gigs — but by this point when I was on stage, I was out for blood.
Gallows perform at Leeds Metropolitan University, February 2008
I think it fell apart within 20 minutes.
When we were off stage getting told off by security, this guy just comes bowling through — a short, stocky fella — and he just puts me in a headlock, and was like “That's brilliant, let me take you out for dinner!” He was a manager and he’s like “I'm setting up this new label, I've got some great bands, and I want you guys!
In September 2006 Gallows debut album ‘Orchestra Of Wolves’ releases, turning heads across the country.
The gig that made waves in the music press
We played London’s Mean Fiddler for a Kerrang! Halloween party. It was us and Bring Me the Horizon — I think Oli [Sykes, Bring Me the Horizon vocalist] was Scooby Do — but we went as the droogs from Clockwork Orange. We felt like a team, a proper unit because we had this uniform.
We played a great fucking gig. It's easy when you've got a cane in your hands, you can really cause some chaos!
At one point, one of the boys was like, we should just play in this getup all the time, but I didn't want to wear a fucking jock strap for the rest of my life!
2007: Spit by South West — grafting in Texas and performing in front of rock icons
We flew to South by South West in Texas, and we played something crazy like 15 shows in four days. We played in a taco bar in the middle of the day, and I remember looking up and just seeing [Metallica drummer] fucking Lars Ulric! Dave Grohl [Foo Fighters] was there, Tom Morello [Rage Against The Machine] was there…. I remember being like, "I'm fucking out of here!"
We played three songs and I just climbed out the window mid set. I was like, "Nah, I can't do this shit, not in front of them." And it turned out that they liked that. They were just like, "Yeah, that was great. I remember you climbed out the fucking window, you just fucked off, you'd had enough, and we were like, 'We've had enough too, it's too hot for this shit!'"
Gallows goes Grime — Lethal Bizzle x Gallows
“It’s quite simple how this came about — I just love grime. I remember bumping into [Lethal Bizzle] at some award ceremony and saying "We’re gonna do this cover of a Ruts song. Do you know the Ruts?" And he's like, "Yeah, I just did a cover of Babylon’s Burning", so I’m thinking this is the guy, he just fucking gets it!
So we decided to come together to do a cover of ‘Staring at the Rude Bois by the Ruts. It was definitely the most pop sounding song we'd done but it just worked really, really well.
Staring at the Rude Bois went onto be Gallows’ highest charting UK top 40 single, appearing at number 31 on the chart on 25 November 2007. Gallows also won a Kerrang! Award in 2007 for Best British newcomer.
2009: Great Britain, Grey Britain
Warner Bros had signed us, and we had got the unthinkable — we'd managed to secure a two album firm deal. So we were guaranteed a second record, no matter what.
They wanted to re-release Orchestra Of Wolves — so they bought that as the first one — and then Grey Britain was the second record. Korda Marshall is pretty much a genius A&R who was responsible for some of the biggest British rock bands — bands like Ash, and Muse — and he was the one that saw something in us and said, "Yeah, Gallows is going to be the next big thing”.
Grey Britain, however, was the antithesis of Orchestra Of Wolves’ catchy three minute bangers. A prophetic concept album about the tide of hatred and division slowly consuming Britain, it was a dark, cinematic and confrontational record that to this day remains a misunderstood masterpiece.
I remember sitting in the listening party for Great Britain, and it's like a fucking film — it's a movie, that record. It's not supposed to be a hit album. It's supposed to be an atmosphere. It's our odyssey. I remember seeing all their faces [at Warner Bros.] and just thinking, "Right, yeah, well, we're fucked here, they don't get it."
So we made the record that we wanted to make, they fulfilled their obligations, and then they let us go. I’ve got to give some credit to a major for even allowing that to happen.
I was out last night, and someone walked over to me and said "Great Britain changed my life" and that's pretty amazing, 17 years on. We were trying to make a cult classic, we were not trying to make a mainstream hit, and I feel like we did that.
2011: The fall of Gallows
One of the last tours Gallows did was labelled as ‘Back to the Dives’. It was supposed to be this cool thing, us returning to small venues after selling out venues like Brixton and returning to our roots. But it was a market test, to see if there was still love for the band. And I just hate that. I think that's the biggest betrayal.
In some ways I was quite eager to do something different, and I wanted to start moving towards a rock-centred world, and I'm not sure the boys did.
I think the reality was we probably all could have just used a year off, to be honest. Then when the boys said that they were going to carry on, it was a shock to me, because I think at that point my ego was probably quite out of control and maybe that pushed me even further to do my own thing.
2011 - 2014: From all out aggression to new band Pure Love
It was fucking hard. It felt disastrous at the time, if people did come to Pure Love shows [it was] to see the fall of Frank from Gallows. They came to fuck me up and say, "What the fuck you doing?"
But the reality was, I was tired of singing about hate at that point. It was poisoning me, and that's because I wasn't releasing it in a positive way. It was really, really hard work. I had an amazing time, but there's a lot of people there that didn't want it to happen.
In 2014, after releasing just one album, Pure Love disbanded.
2015 - 2024: Frank Carter & The Rattlesnakes strike
[The Rattlesnakes] was supposed to be one record. We took it all really in our stride. I think five albums in 10 years is an insane amount of work, and we'd had some crazy highs and lows.
We'd sold out Alexandra Palace. We'd survived fucking Covid as a band. Even on our last tour, we sold out two nights at the Roundhouse, back-to-back, which is an amazing feat for an independent band.
2024 - 2026: Never Mind The Bollocks, Here Comes Frank Carter and The Sex Pistols
Towards the end of [Rattlesnakes], I think we needed a break, and randomly that's when I got a call from Louis Matlock, who's Glenn Matlock's son. He's like, "My dad wants to meet you.” I'm thinking, "I don't want to meet your dad. I love the Sex Pistols. Don't ruin this for me!"
[But] Glenn is lovely. He's very quiet, very softly spoken, but a legend of music. He says "Hey, we want to do this reunion, but we can't seem to make it work with John [Lydon, original Sex Pistols frontman]. So we thought...could this work with another singer? Is that something that you would be interested in?"
I was really blindsided. I just thought he wanted to hang out and maybe write a song together, and immediately I was just like, "Yeah, I'll do it". I just knew in the very soul of me, and I gave it no thought.
The first practice I did with Paul "Cookie" Cook and Glen I thought I totally fucked it. I was really struggling, but! After that Steve Jones flew over and we had, I think, maybe two rehearsals, and then we would just go straight into three gigs. It was a beautiful, beautiful week, amazing shows.
Right off the back of that, they were like, "Hey, we've been offered this gig in Italy, do you fancy doing that?" At that point, I was like, "Yeah, cool, fuck it".
I think off the back of that, they really saw who I was and what I was about, and the next thing I know, they're like, "We're thinking about doing some gigs next year. You busy?" So it just all kind of fell together. Here we are in 2026 and we're still fucking still doing it.
I want to do [John Lydon] proud. Without him, I wouldn't be in music. I remember seeing him back in the day, skinny orange-haired maniac, and I was like, that's me!
Frank Carter
[With Sex Pistols shows] rather than switching off, I switch on more. I think maybe when it's when it's your own stuff it's a lot easier to switch off and just go with the motion, but this I've had to really work at. I want to do them proud.
I've not met John, and I'd love to, but I want to do him proud as well because without him, I wouldn't be in music. I remember seeing him back in the day, skinny orange-haired maniac, and I was like, that's me! The greatest gift is being able to walk on stage with them and make them all smile. I'll be thinking about that on my deathbed. The band that gave me so much, helped me find my people, helped me find my identity, the band that gave punk rock to the world, I'm able to put smiles on their faces.
They're also all very big characters, and I'm not trying to diminish any of that. What the world needs is their fucking songs, the world needs that music more than ever now. If one young kid comes to the show with their dad or their grandparent, and they see one guitar, one bass drum, and a singer sweating, and they think "I'm going to start a ban"? Then it was all worth it.
When it comes to new Sex Pistols music, you'd have to ask the others about that. I'm ready. I've written some bits that I think would be cool with them, but l think they just really enjoy playing live. I think it would be a lot harder for them to make some new tunes now, because the whole world is watching. So, I understand the pressure. There's no pressure from me, and if they ever want to, I'd love to.
Will Gallows ever return?
With Gallows, what happened in four years with that band, it's pretty iconic. For me, I feel like there's still unfinished business there. The way it ended was sad. My brother and I, we healed, it's water under the bridge between us now, and so I don't know what the future holds.
But I think at some point, I've at least got to take those lads to dinner and see where their heads are at.
If Gallows got back together, though, I could never call it a reunion, because to me it never stopped.
Just because they went and did other records, that band is still my band, you know? If we ever went back, it wouldn't be a reunion, it would just be a return.
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